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My Mauser .22 - Venturing Beyond My Comfort Zone
 
Article Written by: Ryan Jones
 

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The surplus gun owner buys his or her guns for a multitude of reasons. Some buyers pick up their guns to have a piece of history, others buy to fill a hole in a collection, but if you ask any dealer in firearms why they sell, it comes down to only one thing, price.

Let’s face facts, you get a lot of gun for the dollar when you pick up a surplus gun, be it a rifle or pistol. But most surplus guns are bought for fun, or a collection, not for serious practical use. Most civilians use a rifle for hunting and a pistol for more serious purposes, and rarely, in my opinion, do surplus guns fill these roles for their owner.

But what if they did? What if an off the shelf surplus piece were actually used for something other than novelty? How would it stack up against a modern commercial piece? How much bang can you really get for your surplus dollar?

Well, there is only one way to find out. Compare them. Compare a modern, commercial, top of the line gun, to a surplus pistol that can be put to similar use. That is exactly what this article is about, comparing two pistols, one surplus, and one commercial against one another to see how they stack up.

The Polish P64 Vs The Walther PPK, A Practical perspective
The subjects of the comparison should be similar and put to similar use. In this case the pistols in question are the venerable Walther PPK and the not so well known Polish P64. I would be remiss not to remark that these guns are both carried legally in the state of Ohio. One of them is carried by me and the other by my cousin and very good friend, Zachary. Both of these guns are carried in the same manner slipped into the pocket on hot days, or a day when slapping the holster on is not practical or convenient. We both have and use “primary” carry guns, which are compacts in larger calibers, 9mm and .45 ACP, but they are not always practical.

The guns are also similar as they are around the same size, have the same manual of arms and takedown procedure, and use the same method of operation. But there is a lot to say about each, so let’s take a look.

WALTHER PPK
The Walther PPK is a gun that virtually needs no introduction. It has been in service since 1929, and is still a viable defensive pistol. Originally produced in Germany in the city of Zella-Mehlis at the Walther factory, the gun was used by the Nazis, and no doubt others officially and unofficially during the Second World War. It was put to good use during that war and it is believed that Adolph Hitler himself used one to commit suicide in the end, in my opinion a good use indeed.

Some years after the end of that brutal conflict, Walther re-opened their factory in Ulm/Donau, Germany and began to produce the pistols again. These pistols were imported to some degree to the United States until the Gun control Act of 1968 banned their importation. This led Walther to Produce the PPK/S, by all accounts the “American PPK” which simply uses the frame of the larger PP with the shorter slide of the PPK. They are good guns, and have ridden in countless holsters and pockets for more than 40 years, but they are not a true PPK.

Around the mid 1980’s Walther sold the rights to produce the Walther PPK and PPK/S to a company called INTERARMS based in Virginia. They in turn began producing Walther pistols here at home and for the first time in decades, a true PPK was again available. More notable, for the very first time the PPK was available in Stainless Steel. The one used in this article is one of the INTERARMS produced models. INTERARMS folded several years back now, but the pistols are still available, being domestically produced by Smith and Wesson.

The PPK has been offered in three calibers, the .32 ACP, .380 ACP and .22LR. The gun in question is a .380 ACP. It has a magazine of six rounds plus one, and can be carried safely fully loaded. It is a Traditional Double Action/Single action design, the first shot being a long heavy double action stroke with all consecutive shots being single action, with a light pull. The safety lever doubles as a decocker on this pistol, and flipping it down with the hammer back will cause the hammer to fall safely while blocking the firing pin. It also features a loaded Chamber indicator at the rear of the slide, which can be both seen and felt when there is a pesky case in the chamber. The gun will fire without the magazine in place, to remove the magazine; one simply presses the release button located in the proper spot, on the left side of the pistol just forward of the left grip panel and out it pops.

Takedown is accomplished by pulling down on the trigger guard, shifting it to the left or right so that it rests against the frame, retracting the slide and lifting up on it before sliding it off, which takes longer to write than to say. The gun is easy to clean and maintain and in over 2000 rounds has exhibited no parts breakage or malfunction that I can think of.

Fit and finish on the Walther is excellent, I have had the opportunity to handle and fire an original German PPK purchased in the 1960s and they are comparable. Some are critical of the Interarms guns for not being as well fitted as the earlier German models, but I just do not see it. There are no tool marks on the gun, anywhere… Enough said.

The particular gun in question was purchased used, in excellent condition around five years ago. It cost $450.00 which was a fair price and considering the service it has given, money well spent.

POLISH P64
By contrast, the Polish P64 has a much more mundane and uninteresting history. Here are some facts that I have found, but be advised that research material is scarce when it comes to this arm, most likely due to its lack of adoption by any nation but Poland and its lack of status to collectors other than a cold war relic. P-64 was designed during the late fifties by a team of Polish army officers. The team developed two different prototypes, but ultimately the P64 was chosen in 1961 to replace the Polish version of the Russian Tokarev TT-33 pistol as the standard service pistol of the Polish military, police and government agencies. In the mid 1960’s the pistol began manufacture at the Radom arsenal in Poland, it was officially designated "9 mm pistolet wz. 1964" (9 mm pistol model 1964). In 1972, minor changes to the trigger mechanism and shape of the hammer (larger hammer spur) were introduced.
While a serviceable design, the P-64 had several shortcomings, which included heavy recoil due to lack of proper ergonomics, a small magazine capacity for a duty-style, on the belt, service pistol, small and difficult to pick up sights with a short sight radius for a service pistol and, in my opinion the most grave of all, a extremely heavy double-action trigger, which has been reported to be from 23 to 29 pounds (which I don’t doubt for a second). The Polish government began work to correct these problems in the early seventies and eventually P-83 was adopted as replacement for the P-64.

Another interesting note as that, while the P64 looks, operates and functions almost exactly the same way as a Walther PPK, it was supposedly designed from the ground up by Polish engineers. I find this hard to believe, as while the P64 is not a direct copy of the PPK, you cannot pick up a P-64 and not think that the designers at least picked up a Walther and were impressed with it, using the design as a framework for the P64. More likely, the P64 is a PPK clone, but the Polish government/military establishment would never openly admit this, especially under the communist influence Poland was subjected to during the time of adoption and their notable other pistol designs.

The Polish P64 is still in service in Poland, although it is being rapidly replaced by newer designs. This is not all that dissimilar from our own M16A2 military service rifle, which can still be found in the hands of our troops in Iraq, but on a very limited basis, being rapidly replaced by newer M4 and M16A3 rifles.

The P64 is only available in 9mm “Makarov” (9x18mm) caliber, which is the reason why the gun is often erroneously referred to as a “Polish Makarov” in the US, even though it is quite dissimilar to that venerable design. It has a magazine of six rounds plus one, and can be carried safely fully loaded. It is a Traditional Double Action/Single action design, the first shot being a long (very) heavy double action stroke with all consecutive shots being single action, with a light pull. The safety lever doubles as a decocker on this pistol, and flipping it down with the hammer back will cause the hammer to fall safely while blocking the firing pin. It also features a loaded Chamber indicator at the rear of the slide, which can be both seen and felt when there is a case in the chamber. The gun will fire without the magazine in place, to remove the magazine; one pushes the heel clip under the grip toward the shooter and the magazine will drop partially from the frame, allowing it to be easily pulled out. Unlike the Walther PPK, the P64 features a chrome-lined barrel, which no doubt enhances its reliability.

Like the PPK, takedown of the P64 is accomplished by pulling down on the trigger guard, shifting it to the left or right so that it rests against the frame, retracting the slide and lifting up on it before sliding it off.

Fit and finish on the P64 is very good, exhibiting a nice external polish and deep bluing. The original markings are well executed and slide to frame fit is tight. There are several tool marks inside the pistol, but they do not inhibit function. The pistol can be described as stout, being heavy and well crafted, it could double as a brick if need be.

The particular gun in question was purchased used, in excellent condition around a year ago. The cost was SIGNIFICANTLY less than the Walther, at around $175.00, for the money, as is usual with quality surplus guns, it is a tremendous value.
 

SHOOTING IMPRESSIONS
 

David O’Connor Takes aim with his Walther PPK/S, the Walther PPK and Polish P-64 were both fired and carried extensively over the course of several months, as you can see, Dave Decided on a PPK/s, a PPK with a bit longer grip frame for his larger hands.
Over the course of several months now, myself and several other shooters have had the opportunity to fire both the pistols in a single range outing. Here are some general impressions.

Zachary Ziviski fires the P-64 after drawing from the pocket. Despite costing less than half of the Walther, the P-64 Managed to hold it’s own in as a defensive pocket pistol.
 
Reliability: Both pistols feature stellar reliability. They will both function with whatever ammo you are able to find for them, including hollow point rounds, which, incidentally, were not designed for either gun. All in all this is a dead draw, as the two pistols are equal in this respect.

Accuracy: Both pistols are accurate enough for their intended role. Shooting at a competitive match is not that role and trying to shoot them off the bench at twenty-five yards for group is… well, stupid. Neither gun is a target pistol, they are both used as pocket pistols for defending ones life against an aggressive individual who means to do you serious bodily harm or kill you. This means that most of the contact will be less than 21 feet, with the shooter under stress, so tiny groups from the comfort of the shooting bench prove nothing. In this respect, they both are capable of holding their own. In shooting at a distance of less than seven yards, they will both deliver center mass hits on a man sized target in less than three seconds from the pocket. The groups, shooting stances and sight alignment are not pretty in this type of shooting, but neither is having to shoot in the first place. In the combat shooting role, they are equal, with neither being at a significant disadvantage.

With all of the above being said, there is still the matter of practice. Responsible individuals that carry a pistol for legal purposes of self defense carry great responsibility along with it. While they must be well versed in the legal aspects and implications of a shooting, they also must be proficient with the arms that they choose to employ in that role, in my opinion, more so than the local police officer, who will find a jury more sympathetic to a stray bullet hitting a bystander, than some “Rambo civilian” (as stated by the local prosecutor at trial) in the same situation.

A Typical group shot with the P-64 in Single action mode at 21 feet. As you can see, in the pocket pistol accuracy department, this gun has few rivals.
 
Here the Walther wins, hands down. This is even more frustrating for the P-64 as all of the shooters who used it were generally able to shoot VERY impressive groups with it, but only in its single action mode. The P-64 is to put it mildly, incredibly accurate for a gun of this type, but is inhibited significantly by its absolutely awful double action trigger. As a test, I dry fired the pistol in double action seven times, rapidly pulling through the stoke for three, and slowly pulling it for four, this led to my index finger being red, numb, and eventually sore for the rest of the day. The single action also is at a disadvantage as it is very light with a mile of over travel and a hint of creep. Doing draw and fire drills at the range, or practicing double-taps on target is no big deal with the Walther and can be done all day with little to no discomfort, but with the P-64, you are one tough person if you can pull this off through a whole box of Wolf ammo.

Ergonomics: Both of these pistols feel relatively good in the hand, with a slight edge being given to the P-64 for overall "feel" when picked up and pointed. But one should keep in mid that neither pistol is suitable for someone with very large hands. One of the shooters that fired the Walther, with particularly large hands, wound up with two bloody groves in the web of his hand from the slide blowing back, and never again picked it up.

Of the two pistols, the Walther proved much more "shootable," while the P-64 was a brute to the shooting hand. The index and middle finger of the shooting hand were quickly battered by the P-64's snappy recoil. This proved to be the case whether the pistol was shot with two hands or one and all shooters, from experienced to novice, had this happen to them. The Walther is snappy, but the recoil is more to the web and palm of the hand with no slapping experienced to the fingers. Neither gun is a good choice for left handed shooters or beginners because of the recoil and the lack of a safety/decock lever on the right site of the frame.

The Walther PPK and P-64 both have machining done to the top straps to reduce glare. Not the larger sights on the PPK and the similarity in size and locations of the safety-decock levers.
 
The tiny black sights of the P-64 were able to produce hits, but the Walther's easier to pick up front dot and vertical wide post on the sights were a significant advantage. Magazine changes were also much easier to accomplish with the PPK, but this is largely a range-time thing, as magazine changes are statistically rare in a fight.

As far as Overall Ergonomics and shootability, the Walther wins.

Shooting the P-64 with a limp wrist produces this result. When held stoutly, the pistol still rises quickly.
 
Ammo Considerations: There are several other factors that can be used to compare the two pistols. One that is of paramount importance is the amount of power the gun delivers on target. Neither of these guns are powerhouses, but they can both be used for defensive purposes. I have to give the advantage to the P-64 in the power department but in the real world, the difference is minimal, and probably would not affect the outcome of a fight. Though I don't claim to be a gun fighting expert.
Walther PPK, Polish P-64, and Walther PPK/S. Ammo is Speer Gold-Dot Hollow-points for the Walthers and Horandy XTP Hollow point for the P-64. As you can see, the sizes of the rounds are not all that different.
 
The availability of ammunition is another matter all together. There is only one real hollow-point round currently loaded for the 9mm Makarov Cartridge with defensive purposes in mind. This is the Horandy XTP hollow-point that it is currently available from several mail order ammunition retailers, as well as a very few well-stocked gun shops. Be weary of anything else for serious use, as the imported variety of hollow-point type rounds in this caliber are untested at best and they may not be any better than a standard ball round (and could be worse). It is also advisable to avoid hand loaded ammunition in the defensive role, as again, there are legal implications involved, such as a Prosecutor accusing you of creating, “significantly more deadly, homebrewed ammo.” (I don’t mean to be tough on lawyers in this article, but the above legal scenarios have happened at trials in recent years, so the concerns are more than justified.)

The .380 ACP as chambered, in the Walther, is so common, that you can literally find good defensive ammo at the local box mart. This is in the 9mm, .38 special, 40. S&W class as far as availability goes and also tends to be less expensive than comparable quality 9mm Makarov ammo, when you can find it. When it comes to ammo, the P-64 has more power, but the .380 is available with a much better variety of bullets, is cheaper, and easier to get, I'll let you decide which the winner here is.

Carry Considerations: Holsters are also hard to come by for the P-64, but this is of little concern, as the P-64 is so close to the size of the Walther that most holsters designed for it, will work for the P-64, especially the nylon types that do not have precise bone fitting. I carried the P-64 for most of the day in a nylon shoulder rig designed for the Walther and noted that it worked fine.
Both pistols are easy to carry, as they are thin and do not print even under the lightest clothing. With either of the these pistols, Bermuda shorts, a T-shirt and sandals can be worn while still going about armed, normally with the piece happily concealed in the pocket, that is the reason why the Walther is successful, and why the P-64 is useful.

There may be smaller pistols, there may be more powerful pistols of similar size, and with the widespread use of plastics on guns in recent years, there are certainly lighter pistols, but ether of these guns are good for legally concealed carry. The guns are less than an inch wide across the grips, they both lack large sharp edges, slide stops and large protruding sights to hang up on clothing, and they both can deliver hits on target at realistic fighting ranges with a high hit probability. This is where both of the guns are the most similar, and it is another dead draw.

Conclusions: So what have we learned? Well, take the information presented and decide for yourself. Me, I would personally pick the Walther if I had the choice, but if I did not, the P64 is good enough to fill the role of a defensive carry piece. I feel that either gun could be used for the defensive role, and would feel well armed with either. That being said, the Walther is better for practice and overall handling.
Nevertheless, the question remains, can a Surplus gun be used for more than just novelty? The answer in my opinion is yes, at least in this case. Perhaps we will delve into the question again another time, but for now, I will be keeping an eye out for a good P64 to add to my collection.
 

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Article Written by: Ryan Jones