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Comrade! A Round of Russian Roulette? |
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| Article Contributed by: “Comrades” R. Ted Jeo, Gerry N., Rick A. and David E. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The Belgian brothers Emil and Leon Nagant, who
collaborated with Russian S.I. Mosin in designing the
1891 Mosin-Nagant rifle, designed this revolver adapted
by the Russians in 1895. The brothers had an idea that
would seal the gap between the cylinder and barrel of a
revolver. Their idea was to temporarily seal this gap
with a combination of mechanical design as well as
ammunition design. Normally, this gap exists in a
revolver to allow the cylinder to freely rotate each
cartridge chambered into firing position. It was their
thinking that the gap allowed too much loss of firing
gas and that sealing the gap would substantially improve
the velocity of the pistol bullet. With the seven shot revolver that the Nagants designed, when the shooter either cocks the hammer or, in the case of the double action version of the pistol, pulls the trigger, the cylinder is pushed forward against the rear of the barrel, sealing the cylinder and barrel together (in theory). After the pistol is fired and the hammer is in the rest position, the cylinder returns to its original position which allows the cylinder to rotate freely. Secondary to the mechanical design, the Nagant pistol uses a cartridge that helps also to form a seal. This unique 7.62mm x 38R cartridge completely encases the bullet inside the brass cartridge. The narrow necking of the cartridge then gets pushed up against and slightly into the breech of the barrel, helping to seal in the combustion gasses even more. Normally, my forte is in mil surp rifles, but recently when the M1895 Nagant revolvers came on the mil surp market, well…it was different enough that I wanted to get one. They were not that expensive, but the issue was one of ammunition. At the time the big supply of the pistols showed up, there was little to no commercial ammo (well, let’s say “affordable” ammo anyway) to be had. Doing a little on line searching and forum talking, I learned that ammo wise I could adapt several different sizes of other calibers to shoot from the Nagant pistol, or swap out the cylinder to shoot .32 ACP ammo. I opted to use the 32-20 cartridge brass being that I could get a cheap supply of it through Midway. I will get to the reloading part later. The pistol that came to me from SOG was in pretty good shape, with complete blueing. All the numbers match and the arsenal markings put it being made at the Russian Izhevsk Arsenal in 1945. It is very apparent that the pistol was reworked at one point or another. My particular specimen is the common double action variety. The unfortunate thing is that Century Arms (CAI) electro stenciled a new serial number and their name on the SIDE of the pistol. Yeah, it’s required by law…but why not UNDER the front of the barrel like on rifles? Oh well… These pistols have a long heritage. On my particular specimen there are all sorts of Cyrillic symbols and marks, as well as dates and arsenal marks. There are several good web sites that go very in depth on what the marks mean and such and I would direct you to the following at: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Bunker/4064/PersCollection/M1895page.html |
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When I first got the pistol I did not know a thing
about it. I had not gotten around to doing a web search
on how it even operated. I remember I was on the phone
with Mark and we were talking about something or another
and I happened to be fumbling around with the pistol and
it
Again, for excellent instructions including pictures, try: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Bunker/4064/PersCollection/KnowyourM1895.html |
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The pistol itself is a pretty solid chunk of metal. Nothing rattles on my specimen. The grips are pretty small, even for my “delicate” hands. The walnut wood grips do not fit completely into the frame and gives the pistol a “rough worked finish” and makes holding the pistol awkward and slightly uncomfortable. Several spots on the weapon are rough, like it was filed or something, or perhaps rust was abraded off. The blueing job is complete and a nice deep blue. The pistol came with a holster, cleaning rod, lanyard and screwdriver. |
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I figured if I wanted to shoot the pistol, I would have to reload ammo for it, as the only (at the time) available ammo was Fiocchi which was very expensive and hard to come by around these parts. Since then, however, several mail order companies offer a commercial variety of ammo for the pistol.
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One other option to shoot the pistol was
to replace the cylinder with a .32 ACP cylinder. It is
suppose to be “drop in” replacement, which, it seems to
have worked for several people out there on the forums,
but I had read a few issues where it would not fit at
all without some smith work. |
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Before we get to the target shooting results, I should mention that in using the Lee 7.62 Nagant dies, a slight modification has to be made first. The bullet seating stem that came with the seating die is way too long and cannot be adjusted to seat the bullet way down into the case so that the cylinder would spin freely. In the instructions that came with the Midway order, it stated that I would have to replace the original stem with a ¼” x 20 x ½” round head machine bolt with washer in order to seat the bullet inside the case. And, you WILL have to seat the bullet WAY down in order for the pistol to function. A normal looking pistol round would have the bullet sticking out way too far for the cylinder to clear the barrel. By the way, according to the Midway print out, if I wanted to use 7.62 Nagant brass (that is the real stuff which you can now get from Grafs and Sons) I would have to get a RCBS shellholder (738-210) for the press. Most likely because the rim of a 7.62 Nagant brass is listed at .388” and the .32-20 brass is .408”. The length of the Nagant brass is listed as 1.52” and the Winchester .32-20 is listed as 1.315”, so my brass would be a hair shorter than Nagant brass. This was listed in the “Handloader’s Manual of Cartridge Conversions” as being “okay”. |
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I figured that I did not want to
mess around with seating the bullet WAY down into
the cartridge, but rather would play it safe and
seat it only as far as I needed to get the cylinder
to work. So, after lubing the .32-20 brass up (the
dies are not carbide), I sized them all to 7.62
Nagant. Primed with CCI 500 small pistol primers and
charged with 3.0 grains of Bullseye, I used the
universal flaring die to open up the mouth slightly
and adjusted the seating die until the bullet would
fit into the cylinder and also allow the cylinder to
spin freely. The final overall length of the round
turned out to be 1.422” with the DEWC bullets (with
about 0.1” of lead above the mouth case) and 1.505”
for the FP conicals (with about 0.2” of lead above
the case mouth). I seated the DEWC bullets first,
then tried for a closer tolerance with the FP
conicals. When seating the FP’s, you had to make
very sure that the bullet was started straight to
seat straight into the brass. I did not apply much
crimp at all to bullets, enough to make sure that
they stayed in place. |
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At the range, I set up targets at 7 paces (about 18’) and 16 paces (about 41’). Why? Because this is where the shooting benches at the range were set at and I did not want to move them (lllaaazzzyyyy!!!). The shots at 16 paces were fired from the bench and the targets at 7 paces were fired free hand. For the actual shooting experience I can say that the recoil was quite mild, less than that of a .38 Special. Not bad at all to shoot. The pistol functioned without a flaw and accepted the handloads with no issue and the brass popped out of the chamber with only a slight “pop” with the ejector rod. An interesting note was that there was little powder spray coming from between the cylinder and barrel as a normal revolver would have, this I would attribute to the sliding cylinder feature of the Nagant. The chrony speed of the DEWC bullets averaged at 750.5 fps and the FP’s clocked at 728.7 fps. |
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This .32-20 conversion worked for me. I was just about ready to write it all up when SOG (Southern Ohio Guns) and other companies started selling 7.62 Nagant Russian Commercial ammo. I could not let that get by without using it as a comparison, so I ordered a few boxes. Upon getting the boxes, I noted that, well, besides the fact I could not understand Cyrillic writing, there were no markings of any sort to describe what type of bullet or powder was in the round. Curious, I tore apart a few of the precious rounds and discovered that the bullet was a hollow based wad cutter (HBWC) at 100 grains and below that was 1.5 grains of a green granular powder. The brass was Berdan primed, but, figuring they relatively new on the market, they were probably not corrosive. This appears to be a sport or civilian type of ammo that they made. The HBWC bullet is seated all the way down into the case, the top of the bullet is 0.37” into the case. The bullet is .310” in diameter at the widest and 0.55” long. They do not appear to be lubed, or are lubed lightly with some sort of clear lube. The velocity of the commercial rounds was an average of 604.8 fps. |
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The rounds dropped right into the cylinder; they did not seem as tight as the .32-20 brass. Once fired, the commercial ammo rarely needed to be pushed out with the ejector rod, instead, they fairly well just fell out by themselves after you opened the loading gate. A side-by-side comparison of the Nagant brass to the .32-20 brass showed that the Russian stuff ends with a slight taper, the .32-20 brass is pretty much straight walled. |
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So, what I intend on changing after I have gone through my DEWC bullets, I would like to try the 3.0g Bullseye charge (as a start) with 100 grain HPWC bullets, sized at .310”. I will probably still seat them fairly high up in the brass, at least to start with. I would suspect that velocity will increase as I seat them further down into the case. As you will see, experiences in shooting and reloading for these little dandy revolvers varies quite a bit. I would caution you, I have heard around the net that some revolvers are more finicky about brand of brass that is used (owing to different rim thickness). Also, of course, the condition of each and every revolver is not the same and you should have it checked out by a competent gunsmith if you have any question about your particular revolver. In an effort to present what the experiences others had with the pistol, I asked three well-known guys off the Surplusrifle.com forum site to add their experiences. |
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| Gerry N. (Nordicthug) writes: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I had similar experiences to Ted's when I received my
Nagant. It was part of a -”welcome coupon special” from
Century International Arms after they received my C&R
license. I ordered a Turkish M38 rifle and the revolver
for a combined price of $69.95 including shipping. The
rifle is new/unissued and the revolver is an arsenal
rework dated 1939. It took me about an hour to discover how to strip and reassemble the Nagant. A few drops of light oil in strategic locations inside proved all that was necessary to get a single action trigger pull easily the equal of my .22 cal. Ruger New Model Single Six. Double action is altogether different and requires the strength of the average gorilla. I have a copy of "Cartridges of the World" and got the dimensions of the Russian Nagant revolver cartridge from that. By the tried and true method of simply comparing case head diameter and length to other cartridges in the book, I discovered the .30 M1 Carbine case to be very similar except for the rim and being a tad short. More poring over lists of cartridge dimensions continued until I hit the good 'ol .32-20 Winchester. Rim thickness seemed close, the length wasn't perfect, but not much is in this life, and diameter was very, very close. I found some Remington .32-20 brass at a gun show and gambled on a hundred cases to give it a try. I picked up a used .32-20 shell holder at the same show. Once home, I sized seven of the cases in my Lee Carbide M1 Carbine full length die and tried them in the cylinder. To my delight, they dropped right in and the cylinder rotated without difficulty. So far, so good. I had a partial box of Speer .32 cal. 98 grain .314" Hollow Base Wad cutter bullets I was trying in a .303 British P-14 as gallery loads. I decided to try some in the .32-20 cases over a charge of three grains of Unique, because I had some. I arrived at a seating depth that leaves the bullets about .010" out of the case mouth, allowing the cylinder to rotate without interference. I then set the seating die to put a fairly generous crimp on the case mouth. The proof being in the pudding as the old saying goes, I took my sack of ammo, my new revolver and hied myself into the hinterlands. Setting my low-tech target frame, an empty cardboard box in a gravel pit, and taping some six inch bullseye targets to it, I paced off what I estimated to be 25 yards or so and commenced spraying bullets around the landscape. Actually, I got about 10"-12" "groups" of seven shots offhand at that distance. Not horrible, but not exactly "sniping" quality accuracy either. I shot several cylinders while sitting for a steadier hold and produced consistent hits on the six inch bulls. I got point of aim hits at 25 yards. A little practice and plinking at targets of opportunity (rocks) should yield sufficient hits to make life tough on Grouse. The report and recoil were quite mild and all the empties dropped from the cylinder of their own weight. There was not a trace of barrel leading after 100 rounds. I've also loaded a few (21) rounds with the hollow base forward to make hollow point rounds. They are not quite as accurate, but a squirrel I hit with one turned into a pink foamy spray at about 15 yards. Messy. I wanted to do live experiments on human subjects, but people I've asked seemed a bit leery. Perhaps some liberal arts undergraduates will listen to reason if I offer a case or two of beer and a few bags of Doritos. Now that I am a dues paying member of a private shooting club with access to an actual range with actual target frames at known distances. I'll do a proper work up of loads with several powder and bullet combinations. Perhaps I'll even write up the results. All in all, I see no reason to go to the expense of commercial ammo for this little "Pot-Iron" as long as I get useful accuracy from my jury rigged ammunition. |
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| Rick A. (Rick) writes: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The M1895 Nagant Pistol! What the heck is that? Hey that’s one of those revolvers I saw in the movie “Enemy at the Gates” where an officer from the party was shooting guys who had jumped ship to swim for it as they were being mercilessly strafed by Stuka dive bombers and such! Well I was placing my first order ever with my license and that as through SOG up in Ohio. I ordered a M48 Yugoslavian Mauser, a Laminate M38 Mosin Nagant Carbine and the M1895 Nagant Revolver. I had seen through Shotgun News that FAC had aftermarket cylinders in . 32 ACP for it as well and ordered one on the same day I placed my order with SOG. Well when I got it I figured on shooting .32 Mag and .32 S&W Long through the original Nagant cylinder until the market came to its senses and quit raping folks over the cost of a 50 count box of ammo from Fiocchi. I still figure that even with “deals” of $100 for 4 boxes= 200 rounds that that’s still to much for such a pistol. So I ordered my own dies in .32 Mag and set out to shoot the pistol and enjoy it for what its worth. After all I only paid $86 for the lil gem! I found the various recipes using Red dot and even H4227 with 85 gr Sierra JHP and 85 and 100 gr Hornady XTPS to be quite accurate and fun to shoot. Of course the cases do fire form bulge/swell a little so to me this is still not quite optimum but it works and the cases fall freely from cylinder. Something I haven’t experienced when using Factory (Federal Loads) the cases stick. The Aquila .32 Long loads are fine and the fall freely from cylinder too. Well after spending a few months loading and tinkering with the .32 Mag loads, I turned my attention to the .32 ACP cylinder. About 15% of the cylinders are said to drop in and work while the rest need a little work on the “hand” in order to turn the aftermarket (Korean made) cylinder. I “engineered” it too much with a Dremell tool and ended up sending it to LC Enterprises to have it fitted for a modest fee. I have shot Aquila .32 ACP through it exclusively and its not uncommon to stick all 7 shots in a 2” at 10 yds or less! The closer, the tighter the group. I’m currently trying to find and see if anyone can or thinks that they can turn the .32 ACP cylinder into a simple .32 S&W Long. The .32 Long is a very accurate round and, I’ve read, very popular in Europe for targets. If I managed to convert the cylinder, the Nagant original cylinder will remain in moth balls until a reasonable source of ammo appears. In fact, I’ve decided to do that anyways and use the .32 ACP cylinder exclusive till either option presents itself. I’ve read warnings that while some folks have managed to chamber their Nagant in 7,62x25 Tokarev, they should not as the old pistols aren’t up to those kind of pressures. I agree and have never seen such a conversion anyway. So far I have not shot actual 7.62x38R Nagant ammo. I may end up getting some original ammo one of these days, but I’ll stick with the .32 ACP cylinder for the time being. The .32 ACP is fun. It’s like shooting a single six with a little more punch, and with today’s hot little .32 ACP loadings, I think it could be a formable revolver for what it is. |
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Not bad for an old Russian pistol of a over a 100 year old design with a heavy trigger shooting Mexican made ammo from a Korean made cylinder, in the hands of a near mid aged Texan who hates to shoot handguns out of the 7-21 ft, i.e., recognized combat distance. Obviously the .32 ACP likes to go low from my pistol! |
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| David E. (Russianblood) writes: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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My Nagant revolver was the first gun I bought when I got
my C&R license. I also bought 50 rounds of Fiocchi and
some S&B 32 S&W long 100 gr wad cutter cartridges to try
in it after reading that many people shoot only the 32
S&W longs in their revolvers. Unfortunately, the rims
were too small for my revolver and the cartridge sat too
far in the cylinder for the firing pin to reach them.
After realizing that only the Fiocchi rounds would work
in my revolver, I knew I would have to start reloading.
So, not only is the Nagant my first C&R firearm, it's
the first caliber I started to reload. I went on line to
see what a good load would be. I have not found any
printed text on reloading for the 7,62x38R (7.62
Nagant), not even in the Lee die set I bought, but I did
find a rather long post on the Curio and Relic Firearms
Forum at:
http://p223.ezboard.com/fcurioandrelicfirearmsforumfrm29.showMessage?topicID=31.topic
I did what the post suggested and used Starline 32-20 brass (because it has the thinnest rims), 3.5gr Unique powder, Hornady .314 90gr HBWC bullets and CCI small pistol primers. The accuracy was pretty good but there wasn't much power there. So I went in search of a more powerful load that wouldn't tax the strength of the little revolver. I started scouring through reloading manuals using both 32 S&W Long and 32 H&R Magnum reloading data as reference. I first purchased some Hornady .312 85gr XTP jacketed hollow points. After going through several different manuals I found that Hodgdon's Lil'Gun gave the highest velocities with the lowest CUP pressures using this bullet. I chose the starting load for the 32 H&R Magnum published by Hodgdon in their 2004 Reloading Annual. Using Starline 32-20 brass and CCI magnum small pistol primers, I loaded 10.3gr Lil'Gun with the XTP bullets seated to the crimp groove. I gave the rounds a good roll crimp to finish them. Seated to the crimp groove the OAL was 1.52". Just short enough to clear the barrel when rotating the cylinder but far enough out of the cylinder to enter the barrel when the pistol is cocked. I haven't had a chance to test the accuracy of them but I did test the power on a raccoon that decided to get itself into our trash bin. The rounds had quite some punch but the brass came out of the cylinder without any problem and there were no signs of undue pressure. This is as far as I have gotten when it comes to reloading for my Nagant revolver. So far, I have been very pleased with this piece of Soviet history and it will be on my side this small game season. **************** These are dandy little revolvers that are in excellent shape and go for a reasonable price now a days. They make a nice addition for someone who already owns any of the Mosin Nagant rifles made in the former USSR, and, as you have read, commercial ammo and/or reloading your own ammo can make, shooting the revolver a very interesting experience. |
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